"FAIRNESS" I'm rich and you're not, but, you got a job that I was more qualified for. IS THAT FAIR??

Mr. Casper is, after all a tool for the Affirmative Action machine.

Ah, yes, of course. /s

Don't get me wrong, but I have yet to see anything positive come out of affirmative action.

Affirmative action is just an excuse tool to hire a lesser qualified candidate via governmental extortion, at the expense of a business owner's better business acumen.

I say hire the best qualified individual--if he or she happens to be a minority, congrats! If not, hey, you're still hiring the best person for your business--screw affirmative action.

Haven't had much time to get on the computer this weekend, but this is a good article and one that many on the left don't want to address (good on Joanna for stepping in here, though). Excellent comments throughout and so true above, LKessler, in response.

I hope you don't mind that I have clipped this to some groups...it is worthy.

Indeed Therese, and Freedom Ranger.....and in fact all of our Congressmen, Senators as well as our President are millionaires. How odd that there's no Occupy the White House or Occupy Congress. Where's the Occupy Hollywood? Where's Occupy the Music Moguls or NFL Football? No....just "occupy" banks. Very selective indignation.

When did we become a country where we don't all strive to achieve what they've achieved? Who does not want a nice home, car and financial security? When did those goals become shameful in this country?

Elaine - Nice to see you again. When? When the communists infiltrated the democrats. Fairness is never the object of those purporting to support that notion. On the agenda is the One World Order. On another seed was a posting about Obama going aboad to sign something later this year. Pardon my forgetting the specifics. This will be the first step toward Global Order. Another seed had an article about our nation rising through competiveness. I see nothing competitive in someone gaining a position without the skill set to compete with others. Everyone has the opportunity to gain an education in this country so there is no excuse not to hire on skills and merit rather than on "status".

If Obama signs that thing, if one world order is achieved, there will be no competition. We will fall. All will fall. The only reason to do anything (by anyone in the world) would be either to be as slaves or subjects of welfare. And how fair is that if one has to slave and another gets to sit around.

This issue is at the heart of our present problems. It is a major issue. I grew up hearing "life is not fair" and detested hearing that. But I also grew up hearing "do your homework if you want to get anywhere in this world". Evidently I wasn't fortunate enough to be born into the right minority. A minority that does not have to do homework or get an education to advance. Society is telling children don't bother with school, you can play the race or gender card. And then they wonder why throwing money into school systems does not improve childrens "progress" (hate that word).

The only reason to do anything (by anyone in the world) would be either to be as slaves or subjects of welfare. And how fair is that if one has to slave and another gets to sit around. #5.3

It's not!

NJ Person, that is a wonderful story of your family achieving the true American dream and doing it with dignity and grace. They came here legally and they struggled, saved, worked and my own heart swelled with pride for them when you describe the day you graduated from college. This is the story of true Americans reaching their dreams by working for it. Thank you for sharing it.

Elaine-1503791 - Thank you for your kind words. I'm very proud of what my family was able to offer me in one generation. In tandem, I shared my family's story because I am so tired of being labeled "bad" just because my family is middle-class and successful.

It was an uphill battle rearing my children with good ethics while being "modern." Many of their friends had everything they wanted. We could have bought on credit to do the same, but we chose to buy only what we could realistically afford. My two have already thanked me for that monetary lesson.

Bravo!

"Hiring should not be by ethnicity, gender, etc. It is no better than profiling."

I wish those words could be true today. Today, attacks focus on our police, border patrols, and teachers by saying they profile ... yet we ignore the broader profiling picture exhibited in the selections made in the post-secondary education and business fields. How PC-convenient.

Whenever I am asked in an application: "Are you latino?" I leave the box blank. I don't like to box myself into anything.

You want to hire me based on my qualifications? Great. You don't, that's ok. I won't miss much if you hire based on a government quota, that's for sure.

Luz E. #8.2...You are a great American!

Wolf: I just hate to think that I got a job based on the fact that the place had a government quota to fill...

That's a despicable way to hire, IMO.

I was not just looking for a paycheck, I looked for work.

Bravo!

To Anthony-1802249 (#10) --- I echo Runner99 and just want to add that your whole comment was awesome. Voted up!

As an elder, it is my sincere belief that many have misquoted and reinvented "All men are Created equal" to mean all "ARE" equal.

This phrase, so often misquoted and misunderstood...I believe was originally intended to mean "all men shall receive equal protections under the law".

Affirmative action was, IMHO, at the time of it's creation, considered by many to be a good and proper thing to do at the time, myself included. Despite any educational achievements, despite talent, despite intelligence...black men and women were not getting opportunities in the business community. As so many businesses were not going to voluntarily step forward to break color and gender barriers for fear of losing clients and business, all efforts at promoting equal opportunity were failing. But, as with many other well intentioned attempts to "level the playing field"...it went too far and has gone on for too long.

A requirement for a person of color or a woman to receive "equal consideration" for employment, at that time, would probably not have helped. They'd have received equal consideration on whether their application was torn in half or crumpled into a ball on it's way to the circular file. So they weighted the rules to insist that people receive "preferential treatment" instead of equality...based not on ability or talent or intelligence or even experience...but on race or gender alone. In so doing, while they did provide opportunity for many, they also denied it to many others. It was considered "fair" because the people in the job market at that time, had always been in a privileged position regarding employment and were felt to have benefited unfairly up until then over minority applicants. In order to give a minority applicant a chance to prove themselves, they had to have preferential treatment to be hired at all.

That being said...that was in 1961. This is 2012. After 51 years of affirmative action...who left in the job market has benefited unfairly from race or gender? Hint...it's not the white male any longer. (Any white male who benefited unfairly in the days before Affirmative Action took effect, is now probably in a nursing home, if he is still alive.)

The program should have had limits built into it in order to phase it out over time as it became unneccessary. While it was certainly instrumental in aiding qualified applicants who would otherwise never have gotten a foot in the door, it has also allowed people with mediocre talent and skill to take preference over others, who never have received that priveleged status of their elders, but are still paying the price for it.

If you were 18 and had graduated high school at the passing of Affirmative Action, you would now be 69 years old, and probably not in the job market any longer. If you are a younger white male, you have not only never received preference, you may have been passed over for other candidates based on thier race or gender, because the deck was now weighted against you simply because you were a white male.

Fairness is indeed a matter of perspective.

merleliz, #10.3;

It is good to remember the past and how things used to be. Lessons that "should" be taught in the perspective of the time. Not as revised to be used as a division of people.

The times that I was raised in the North, I had no concept of racism and the animosity. Not, that is, until I left Buffalo, NY and traveled through the South to Texas. The first signs of "Whites only" I saw where puzzling that turned into disgust. From then on I only stopped where the signs were not posted. Since then, I've found segregation on both sides and still disgusted.

Affirmative action was, IMHO, at the time of it's creation, considered by many to be a good and proper thing to do at the time, myself included.

At the time. I too thought it was needed to give anyone with the ability an equal chance. Instead, it turned into a club to force acceptance of people with out the ability to fill openings. And, I believe, "celebrate diversity" has only divided this Country into ethnic camps.

If you were born an American or are a Citizen of America, you are an American. NOT, an .........-American. I don't call myself a "Norwegian-American" even though I'm 2nd generation born in Country, on my Mothers' side. I'm not an Indian-american, I wasn't born in India, though my Father was half Native Menominee (and French) and German 1st generation. They don't have a check box for mongrel.

And I'm not a "Caucasian," I was not born in Russia in the Caucus mountain region where seperate tribes spoke different languages than Mother Russian. Which is a slur from the communist days of the USSR.

ps., ... Sorry if I got a little off topic there.

This phrase, so often misquoted and misunderstood...I believe was originally intended to mean "all men shall receive equal protections under the law".

Though I mostly agree with what you wrote, This was covered in another part of the Constitution or the "Bill of Rights." "All men are created equal" is in the preamble and seperate from equal protection. I can't recollect in which at the moment without looking it up again.

They don't have a check box for mongrel.

This is just one of the outstanding facets of Anthony. He is an authority, intelligent, and has awesome experience. At the same time, he is funny, witty, and humorous. He attributes his humorous side to his father.

And that's fair!

merleliz, #10.3 & 10.5;

From the Declaration of Independence;

Preamble-

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, .........."

The left/socialists have revised this;

• "all men are CREATED equal" by removing the word created to mean ARE equal. (except to their superiority)
• the PURSUIT of happiness is their "guarantee" or attainment of happiness in a single class of worker. (under their benevolent guidance) Where everyone is equal, but they are just a little more equal.

It is the pursuit or finding the way to happiness that is a right given by the creator (who ever that may be for you), NOT the socialist Party or unions, or the current government.

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ..." is not the consent of the government to those ruled, regulated, and governed by it.

You can not blame others for your un-happiness when you can't find it. That is unfair to you and those that can.

ps., Wolf you're much too kind. I'm just an obsolete elder and observer.

You can not blame others for your un-happiness when you can't find it. That is unfair to you and those that can.

I totally agree. We can pursue our happiness, but it is our own fault if we continue to look in all the wrong places to find it. We keep moving the goalposts for happiness...but I still remember my grandfather saying that if you had a roof over your head and food in your belly and something to occupy your mind every day, you didn't have much reason to be miserable unless you just wanted to be.

merleliz, #10.9;

Very good advice. These were how people thought prior to the end of WWII. It shamed them to ask for help from strangers and friends saw your needs and all ganged up to fix a roof or build a barn or just happened to have some extra food that needed to be used before it spoiled. I was 6 or 7 y/o before we had the first refrigerator bought by a neighbor and it blew up and leaked amonia in their apt. and the fire dept. had to come and evacuate the bldg. while they cleared the air. Within hours there was an unused icebox, a 25lb block of ice, and filled with replacement food.

However, we have so many people who today are PAID to make you feel bad/missing out, if you don't accept their ideology, want you to perceive and blame others who will persecute you because of your skin color or religion or ethnicity or because "they" [the - rich/corporations] want to keep you in poverty. It is NEVER explained how or by who, that's not necessary to propaganda.

There is no truth to this but what does that matter? As it is written in the communist manifesto; Tell a lie often enough, in as many ways, and long enough: it will be believed.

I've oft quoted;

"The truth, doesn't have to be believed." Lily tomlin

Merleliz - very powerful words in your posts.

"This phrase, so often misquoted and misunderstood...I believe was originally intended to mean "all men shall receive equal protections under the law".

The “Creator” is the part that bothers the proglibs. This should be the argument that prayer should be allowed in the schools. God is in the constitution right at the start.

My son says happiness in embedded in virtue.

sugarmae, #10.11;

Nice meeting you. first time you've commented I've seen.

Your son has been raised well and with a better than average understanding. Though I'm not a member of an "Organized religion" my outlook is spiritual, born into me by a small indian heritage. I've read many religious books and agree with their wisdom and social teachings but disagree with their dogma of controls. Each must find their own path in life.

The men who created the "Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights" where self educated. Reading the works of Western Civilizations and raised on the bible. They were not aristocrats and payed their own way and stay for the Continental Congress. Yet they argued their way to documents that have endured longer than any other in todays world.

... prayer should be allowed in the schools.

Yes, and any who are offended should be allowed to leave until over. When one person can dictate what the majority can and cannot do we loose another freedom of choice. Given by God(s) and our freedom of speech in the Constitution.

Anthony - Here! Here! or should that be Hear! Hear!? This needs to be read by everyone. I would vote it up a million times! if allowed.

Anthony - you've just given me an idea. Before a commencement, the emcee just needs to ask for a show of hands of those who would like there to be a prayer or such. If the show of hands out votes the not show of hands, the emcee could ask them to leave for a moment or cover their ears.

That would be a democratic solution to the minority overruling the majority. It is insensitive for one to put themselves above everyone.

Yes, and everyone finds their way in their own time....

sugarmae, #10.14;

That is a very good idea. to request a vote for a benediction.

And I believe the word is from the olde English town cryer; "Hear ye, Hear ye" A proclamation of the then Monarch or an official would follow.

There was a GREAT article on NV today about a lawsuit in California trying to force them to REPEAL a law which requires Colleges to IGNORE race and ethnic backgrounds when looking at college admission. Apparently, the black and hispanic communities don't want color-blindness anymore - they want preferential treatment.

Here is the link

If that is out of line, feel free to delete.

wolfbilly - there is a wonderful Laurel and Hardy movie called "Utopia", aka "Atoll K". It shows the need for laws. It is quite a 'serious' movie for Laurel and Hardy, but quite interesting. Hope you enjoy it. (there are laughs in it).

Perhaps after nearly 50 years of "Affirmative Action" we have begun to see the results - failing corporations, lack of innovation, stagnant economy, etc. BUSINESS fuels America. When we agree to lower our standards in the name of "fairness" it's like putting water in your gas. The machine just doesn't run like it's supposed to.

Social engineering has never and will never work...good points again!

FYI to add to Anthony's post - the average McDonalds manager makes $35-$50K ayear

Boudicea, #18.1;

Thanks for the FYI. Gee, that's at least 3.5 times what I get on social in-Security and I can afford to eat at McDs twice a month. Which is a break from my culinary expertise. (patting self on back! 8>}

You know how the left has been wailing about the "rich" has forced more people into the poverty level? It is half truth propaganda.

The truth is, the government raised the income median line higher because more people were earning higher incomes in the middle class. Moving a median line of a statistic up does not make people poor. Their income didn't change, but the truth is nebulous when used by the left in their rantings against "unfairness" and "inequality."

Desert Storm Vet, #21;

I agree it should be "Good Faith" assessments/efforts. But alas, as the goverment has a want to do, it became mandatory compliance or taken to court for retribution, of arbitrary numbers and percentiles and law by the judicial system.

It is also used as a club against employers by minority agitators and is only to create more friction and separation of groups. This is NOT what you and our service men and women serve for; a United States, not an ethnic fractured populace or a widening divide between left and right.

I believe everyone deserves the chance to enjoy the opportunities of our Country in accordance to their ability. People come to America from Countries where these freedoms and opportuinties are non-existant as earlier immigrants did and made a good life for themselves and children. Affirmative action does not change this for those born in Country who fail to take the same advantages and then complain they are blocked from the rewards by some unspecified "THEY."

Anyone here watch Undercover Boss? A few months ago there was an episode - can't remember which company, but the "boss" was riding with a truck driver from Russia. He said he came to this country THREE YEARS ago with $20 in his pocket. Within a month had a job, a place to live and settled his family - without government assistance. he said America is the best country in the world and he can't understand why our citizens bitch so much. Makes you think.

Boudicea, #21.2;

Thank you, my point exactly.

A refugee from hungary once remarked to me; "You Americans confuse me. How you save money by spending it." Every ad says "save ......, buy this now." It can be confusing to people from Countries that the goverment control prices. Just one of the problems they have in adjusting to our ways that they overcome to be an American. NOT a ..?..-american.

By that designation I'd be a Mongrel-american. And they don't have a check box for that.

Wolf,#22;

Thankfully, I'm not terminally unique. There are many more things that could be understood by just taking the time to "THINK" and really contemplate the expression; "Walk a mile in MY shoes."

Why archeologist study ancient sites, and scholars study the times and individuals of the past. But, what of the cultures of todays immigrants? We tend to judge them by our own perspective and small world.

There is not a lot of nice places and few who compare to the USofA which we grew up in and so comfortable in. And yet, many complain it isn't good enough. They believe we are deprived of the "good life" and blame a conspiracy of those better off. Our most desperately poor is concidered rich by at least half of the people of the world.

I've heard more than once from people who wished they could go to America because we are so rich the streets are paved with gold. I know that is wrong but it is a "dream" of those unable to come.

I even heard a similar desire from people I've talked to in a local coffee shop who wished they could get a job in Alaska because they pay 3-4 times what they do here. Until I explain that The cost of living there is so much more than here and why. Then they say, I didn't know that or didn't think of that. They didn't look into the reasons, only what they saw here.

Even as an observer and I still ramble on. ... 8>}

I know;

• An 84 y/o women from the Philippines, lived here 25 yrs. without becoming a citizen. she worked for 10yrs. to qualify for Social Security and now goes to food banks and collects food she can box and send to the Philippines where all her relatives think she's rich,
• a French post war-bride to a WWII Army band leader. Divorced 20+yrs. collects veterans pension and SSA retirement who is still a French Citizen but won't go back to France because the taxes and cost of living are to high.
• A Russian family who came here at the Breakup of the USSR nows owns a thriving auto repair shop and employes his father, two sons, and an uncle. Has expanded the bldg. he's buying twice. He had a small repair shop in Russia and the government took it for a low level official. Not only that but he has maintained his Russian work ethic to fix cars and as inexpensively as possible. He replaced the engine in my car for less than $1900 where my old mechanic wanted over $3,000. Replace a hose that only pontiac sold and for $195 for free with a piece of hose he had lying around the shop.
• A Somalian minor official there and escapee from reprisals who I had to explain that if he co-signed a loan he was responsible to pay it if the other person defaulted. He was told it was for personal reference and who also told him that slavery didn't end until 1965.
• etc.

I hope I haven't rambled too much?